By Azeera Az
Tell us a little about yourself.
Where did you grow up, and what were your dreams as kids? How did those early interests shape who you are creatively today?
Chris: I grew up in Labuan, which made for a lot of daydreaming. Computers in 1994 were the reason I fell into the whole digital rabbit hole. So, technology, Sting, and The Chemical Brothers are the musical reasons I am where I am today. Hip-hop’s mentality and grittiness are the emotional reasons I do things the way I do. “It can be done” type of mentality.
Harold: My dad was in the oil and gas industry. During the Sabah Gas retrenchment in 1992, I had to move from Labuan to my hometown in Keningau. Life was very different in those transition years. The 90’s itself was a threshold in a lot of senses, and as a 12-year-old at the time, I was very confused. I listened to whatever was on the radio at that time, Rohana Jalil, Ramlah Ram to Kak Pah, and also stuff like Napalm Death, Iron Maiden, and Dio. I would go for metal gigs and also for Rhoma Irama’s concert at the Keningau Sports Complex.
What do you each do professionally, and how did your creative interests first begin?
Chris: I do production as a producer (or more like an overseer). In essence, I do music production and photography. As a producer outside of music, I put teams together to tackle what clients need for their project. Within budget, of course.
Harold: My college years went by without any spark of creativity. 2006 onwards, I started working in the architectural industry, and then I was a graduate of the built environment practice. I didn’t have my own car back then, so I took the bus wherever I went. During those times, I saw street art done by local artists on spaces that were not supposed to be “artistic”, and I guess these are vandalism pieces, but nevertheless, I saw art. I found out the pieces were done by local painter/skateboarder Donald Abraham, and I became really inspired by his works.
How did the two of you first become friends, and when did you realise there was creative chemistry between you?
Chris: I don’t think we had a choice. We both became friends in Tadika, and being in a class of kids with creative brains on an island, I think we just knew we were the “crazy people”.
Harold: After primary, I went back to Keningau. We reconnected around 2008. That’s when Chris saw I had kept my paintings to myself. I had very low self-esteem back then, and he was the one who convinced me to show my art to the public.
When you start a project together, how do ideas usually come to life? What does that early creative process look like between the two of you?
Chris: I take the “Devil’s Advocate” role to Egn’s innocent charm and enthusiasm. I try to see the reality and cost of business with any projects we do. Is it something we are doing just to puas hati ourselves, or is this one to pay bills?
Both have their challenges and very different approaches. But we do maintain the idea and sense of the project. We keep the story clear. The journey to the story is where the road differs. I will say this: Egn hasn’t lost his dream(s) – I think of concepts that he dreams to fruition. I try to humanise his dreams to make them accessible and understandable. Unless, of course, we both are doing it for puas hati, then it’s lantak la kalau kau faham ka tidak.
Harold: Chris puts a lot of thought into an idea – if it’s worth putting his thoughts into, if not, auto lupa ahahah. But there are works by Chris that are pure genius, that he himself finds difficult to explain to others what it really means. Sometimes people would not see the artistic value in his work until someone else highlighted those works. Chris is a good person, and very fortunate to have friends who have influences in the West Malaysian music industry who are willing to vouch for him when his Sabahan counterpart sometimes kept him on the sideline.
For both of us, the early creative process would look like this, “If it doesn’t scare you, it’s not worth doing.” We have been saying these words ever since we were in this art collective called “The Cracko Art Group”.
Looking at your journey so far, what would you say is your biggest accomplishment together as a creative duo?
Chris: Longevity. The amount of work we have done for and with each other, where we reverse roles, or we just support each other and take turns hiding behind the curtains, is crazy. I think I would say longevity, and really understanding each other – not limiting what we want to do individually and collectively. Even for individual projects, we use each other as a sounding board to make it happen. So definitely longevity.
Egn: Literally blood, sweat, and tears… plus hingus (snot), and etc…ahahha… We went through too many things together, it’s amazing how we didn’t actually kill each other in the process. I don’t know why Chris would stick around with someone like me.
Accomplishment? Saying yes to a very cheap video and photo job all the way in KB, sesat, and the pay can only cover minyak and mamak, we cursed at each other, and yet we still do it. What was magical was that it was the most fulfilling job we’ve ever done. Our hosts were kind, warm people, treated us like family, and yes, the makan was very sedap, got paid full on the spot. Tiada minta diskaun, and no extra demands on the deliverables.
What inspired you to create the Sip Sip Show, and why do you think its honest, conversational style connects so deeply with audiences?
Chris: His kids, so Harold Egn Eswar, this one is all you.
Egn: I asked my then 2-year-old daughter to name my art studio. At the time, she was sipping milk from her sippy cup. Then she said “sip-sip”. Later on, people thought the podcast was called as such because of our “aramaitii” (drinking) culture… But it wasn’t, sorry to disappoint hehe..
I get this a lot from people: “I dunno why I’m telling you this, but I want to tell you oso (also)…” And I end up listening to a lot of life stories: love stories, trauma experiences, deaths, divorce… I am a human story depository. I have been documenting stories as part of my art series I call “spatial biography documentation.” The podcast is actually a by-product of my art series, but now it’s branching out to be something of its own.
Out of all the conversations on the show, which one made you feel the strongest impact or connection, and why?
Episodes where I interview people like Viviantie Sarjuni, Hazli Bojili, Queenera Francine, and Melissa Arafah Ambrose are some published episodes that are very powerful, a combination of trauma survivors, raw life experiences, and underrated life sacrifices. These are just some; there are other Sabahan stories that I myself don’t dare to publish because of the impacts that I cannot foresee on the story sharers.
Through the podcast and other creative work, what have you learned about Sabah, its creative community, and the importance of telling local stories?
Chris: Devil’s Advocate here. I think the creative community wants to grow, but the will isn’t up to par yet. We want to be humble, yet credited and validated. We see potential in others and take it as something else we have to fight, instead of collaborating and growing together. Sabah’s creatives are trying hard to put food on the plate. So much so that it gets in the way of paving the road of growth beyond us and now. Not planting seeds for ourselves but for those that come after us.
Harold: Lain orang, lain struggle (Different people have different struggles). None of their stories are invalid. Everyone is facing a certain type of demon, some kind of addiction, going through abuse of some sort, and some might need help.
From their stories, I find that no one is alone out there, but the problem is that a lot of them don’t know that. It shouldn’t be that way. I think our duty as podcasters is to diminish these gaps between individuals, between races, between genders. Hence, our slogan “bridging community gaps”, “menghapus jarak antara komunitas” “tumutulay sa mga puwang sa komunidad”. In three different languages, so more gaps can be abolished.
With both of you having different careers and responsibilities, what does it actually look like trying to make time for creative projects together in real life?
Chris: I’m guilty here cause i don’t have as much grown-up responsibility as Harold does. I don’t have kids or a family of my own, so I can chase dreams and ideas more freely. That, in a way, helps me help Egn to help me do what we do. He gives at least one night a week to do a podcast, hash out ideas, expand on concepts, and dream. Learning to give space to one another has truly enabled us to do more quality work instead of running down a rabbit hole.
Harold: Quoting Jim Carrey in the film Bruce Almighty, “Don’t chase after miracles; instead, be the miracle”, our artistic journey, to this day, IS a miracle. Two daughters that demand my attention, a wife who is doing her PhD, constant family drama, my demanding day job…dan lain-lain…hahhaha… At the end of the day, we come together to fulfill this miracle. I have seen teens surviving their suicidal tendencies because of art events that we have collaborated with, touched their hearts, and changed their perspective on life (circa 2010 “Voice Out Youth Art Festival” I curated the art show). And today, they’re creating art, continuing to inspire others in urban KK and also rural Sabah. For some, art is a career; For us, it’s a calling.
How do you navigate differences in creative direction?
Can you share an example of how disagreement or contrast actually made the outcome stronger?
Chris: Makan pun bergaduh (We even fight about food). I’ll say this: His wife calls me his other wife. Seriously, a lot of talking and understanding, not taking offence but agreeing to disagree. Tons of teh tarik sessions talking about life help us navigate the creative side, because I do believe art imitates life (or is it the other way around?).
Harold: Yeah, what he said… haha. The mamak sessions are crucial in any type of situation, ideation, hal rumah tangga, financials, spirituals… You name it, there is a mamak session waiting to happen.
For other creatives watching your journey, what do you think is the key to making collaboration work between two very different people?
Chris: Drop the ego. Maintaining standards does not have to be hostile. It’s ok to walk away before destroying something that doesn’t need to be destroyed. Art is like life; force it, and it fights back. Be open and learn from one another. Also, learn how to say no and when to say yes.
Harold: I usually hear this “kalau telampau deep maybe nanti dia susah mau faham.” Don’t assume you are more of something than others; they will always know at least one thing that you don’t. Always go into a collaborative project with the intention to learn first. When your opinion or help is clearly demanded, baru kau kasi advice, a helping hand, or stuff like that.
At this stage of your lives and creative paths, what kind of impact do you hope your work leaves behind?
Chris: That it’s doable, gear and equipment are secondary to a great story or reason. Do it with passion. Listen to that inner voice, let it guide you, and you won’t regret the broken paths in life.
Harold: As for “spatial biography documentation”, I pray that more students who want to know more about Sabah can refer to my maps to seek local stories of not-so-everyday people of Sabah. As for “the Sip Sip show”, I hope my daughter would somehow want to see “how papa lived” and see papa’s friends. One day, I will not be here anymore. Maybe this podcast can “kasi kawan” my anak nanti. (I am not crying… No…. Not crying)
What excites you most about the future of Sabah’s creative and storytelling scene?
Chris: That we are finally finding our own voice and beginning to believe and own it.
Harold: The idea of people wanting to be a part of the cultural movement, whether in forms of fashion, filmmaking, jewelry making, textiles, now, anime and vinyl toys, everything u can think of. Someone is approaching that particular thing with some kind of “Sabah” reference.
Sabah has many talented people with stories waiting to be told. What do you think is needed to help more local creators, artists, and storytellers flourish and sustain their work?
Chris: The space and tools to play. Where you can experiment, fail, and not lose weight or your car in the process. Being able to do art for art. Collaborations, shared IP, us supporting each other without a hidden knife up our sleeves, celebrating the success of others.
Harold: Good artists sustain, great artists sacrifice. Others come to help and support, which is good. This is all part of the process, the day will come when you find out whether you’re good or great.
For individuals or creatives who want to start but feel unsure or intimidated, what advice would you give about starting small and finding your own creative voice?
Chris: Use that fear. Create art that questions it, fights it, or embraces it. Find your voice in the process. Art has no end. It starts, and the journey continues till you decide to stop dreaming.
Harold: Again, if it’s not scary enough, maybe it’s not worth it. After you decide to be brave to take on the challenge of the art world, the next hurdle is to maintain consistency of being brave, the bravery of day one, on all the days.
Outside of creating, what are your top three places or experiences in Sabah that everyone should enjoy at least once?
Chris: Little Sulap, sunset at Tanjung Aru or tip of Borneo (Kudat), a nice long weekend at Shangri-La Tg Aru
Harold: 1. 2 am at SAFMA fish market, bring a camera… 2. Rumah Murut, KDCA, during Kaamatan, bring designated driver… 3. My mom’s “Mami Ita’s Tapai Workshop” is a rare occasion (usually before Kaamatan or Christmas) where my mom passes down knowledge of the Dusun Gana traditions in tapai making. The myths, the lore, do’s and don’ts, songs and cries, and everything in between. Mami Ita is in Keningau.
We all love food!
We usually ask: What are your top three must-eat dishes or favourite places to eat in Sabah?
But we’d like you to inject some advice. On eating a good and satisfying meal, what would you recommend?
Chris: It’s a tie for me, between Borenos and Little Sulap. The porridge and chicken at Borenos and ANY of the set meals at Little Sulap.
Harold: Borenos No.1 (ayam guring la bah)…. Fatt Kee Hilltop No. 2 (Tom Yam Mee, campur semua!)… Sri Latha Bandaran for No. 3 (kari kambing, nasi daun pisang)… Lapar!!
Discover more about The Sip Sip Show, Chris & Harold Egn…
